My name is Red Rum … and I’m from Chicago Illinois … I grew up In Saint Paul Minneapolis … lived there my whole life … until I came here to Chicago … about seventeen years ago … I didn’t come from an artistic family … my mom was a nurse … and my dad was a cop … so … when I was a child … I had never been to a museum … or had an art book … until I was well into high school … It’s kind of funny to think about how I got into it … my grandmother was artistic … my mom … has a lot of art skills … but … it just wasn’t her path … When I was a kid … what did I like to do? … I was always drawing … It’s so funny … that its something that I personally catered to … so young … drawing … painting … I loved theater … but I could never act … or have the ability to memorize lines … I auditioned for school plays … but never got into anything … so … it was kind of funny to … eventually … find my way to the stage … and the way that I did that was music … having music to tell my story … rather then bits of dialog … When I was kid … drawing wise … I just copied drawings out of magazines … like out of Rolling Stone magazine … (laughter) … I used to draw pictures of the Beastie Boys … draw pictures of Nirvana … and all the bands that I worshiped … eventually … it grew into me creating some of my own content … The subject matter … when you’re first learning … is so uninteresting … (laughter) … but it was nice to spend time with things that I was passionate about … it was a way of connecting with things I found interesting … It was a lot of pop culture topics … Growing up … I didn’t spend a lot of time in Saint Paul … the city itself … I lived a little bit on the east side of Saint Paul … my friends and I rode our bikes … and stuff … by the time I was old enough to really spend time in the city … I was on my way to Duluth Minnesota … where I did my undergrad … and then I went from Duluth to here in Chicago … Now … when I go back to Saint Paul … Minneapolis … its a whole other experience … all the things I missed out on … Was I aware of the music scene when I was in high school? … I was aware … but again … it was … pre internet … pre YouTube … Most of what you learned about … your friends introduced you to … and … I got into a lot of my dads music … which is why now … a lot of music I choose to perform to … stuff from the … 60’s … the 70’s … the 80’s … sort of the 90’s … I never really connected with stuff that was super contemporary … or the edge of what was happening at the time … those things I got into later … Obviously … once you got YouTube … and the internet … you can fall down the rabbit hole of things … and … connections … this music … grows into that music … I spent a lot of time in high school … in my little art studio … This is so funny … to this day … I’ve never gotten my drivers license … because in high school … you had electives you could take … and drivers ed was an elective … I took art class instead … (laughter) … but to this day … I still don’t have my drivers license … Well … then I always lived in the city … where there was public transportation … or something like that … so I never needed it … I always found my way around … There’s moments when I regret that … but … that was so … who I was at the time … I went to a very small school … art wise … in high school … you did a little bit of everything … so you did some ceramics … you did some etching … you did painting … drawing … but painting was the thing I was connected with … And … University of Minnesota at Duluth was where I did my undergrad … I did a dual degree … in art history … and … they called it studio art … but painting was my focus … So … the reason I went for the art history too … because again … growing up … my parents never brought me to museums … or anything like that … so this was the first time that I was able to connect … with art history … and … I … was so excited … that I just wanted to spend every moment learning about it … So … I spent five years at the University of Minnesota in Duluth … I did a lot of painting … I first got into printmaking there … They had lithography … and etching … facilities … That was really cool … the experiences of drawing on different surfaces … drawing on stone … I discovered how much I loved process oriented … art … there was a lot of pressure … making meaningful content all the time … there was something so satisfying about … enjoying and learning the process of something … it had all these steps … you prepared the stone … and then you draw on the stone … then you roll it with ink … all the different types of paper … and the surprise if it turns out … or if it doesn’t turn out … I love photography for that reason … all the darkroom processes … There’s no instant gratification … though … now there is … (laughter) … It was so nice to still be part of that analog world … those were the foundations … there was no digital … technology … which was amazing when … I went to The School of The Art Institute … where they had an incredible wealth of resources … and digital technology was just becoming accessible … How did I end up at SAIC? … I had a friend … who was a painter at UMD … and they had their eyes set on SAIC … I was … “That sounds good” … but really … the museum was the draw … what an incredible resource to have the museum across the street … And it’s funny … because once you’re in school … you hardly have any time to go to the museum … I had never been to Chicago … We went on an art field trip … after I sort of had my mind set on it … and then when I had my grad interview … that was probably the second time I had visited Chicago … What was my first impression? … it was still gritty enough that it was still attractive … to me … raw … I was very much into outsider art … there were a lot of professors at SAIC that had drawn inspiration from that … so I really liked the style … So … the city itself was secondary … I think to the school … It’s funny to think back … what was I going to do with my life? … Just like your life and your art … one thing naturally grows into another … you don’t necessarily have to have a set path … I never … in a thousand years … thought I would do burlesque … or performance … at all … But here I am … I always thought I would be a pretty straight forward painter … but then I was introduced to the resources and technology at school … and … “I’m going to make movies” … (laughter) … my grad thesis became … a horror film … I transitioned very fast from … painting … to being interested in mold making and casting and prop building and costume … and then the painting translating into learning makeup … it was a very translatable skill … it just felt so much like oil paint … it felt natural … being in school gives you the freedom to play … at a school that encourages those things … I thought … how do I take all these things I love to do … and give it one home … that’s how movies became my thing … I made a film … and … being at school … you have access to not only all these resources … but all these people … and I had never written a script … or even knew how to direct … a lot of it was improve … and I’m using a lot of my friends … that are willing to experiment … be part of bizarre projects … Again … I had no script … but I had a basic outline of what I wanted to do … I developed a lot of comfort working with improve … which set me up well for what I do now … It was nice vehicle for collaboration … too … The film was garbage … (laughter) … ultimately … but I experimented with stop motion animation … and costume and makeup … and learning … gore effects … and visual special effects … “Hey … these would be a really fun thing to do … how do I work that into the movie” … So the objects … that came out of the process of making the movie … and the results of the experiences … working with all these people … kind of connected with the interest of process that I always had … that drove me forward a little bit … and then it was … “Where can I go next with this” … One of my colleagues … who was the starlet in my horror film … her art … was making these businesses that kind of made no sense … like … “Invite me into your home and I will put your furniture on the ceiling” … she was always selling these ideas … and it was quite wonderful … We teamed up after grad school … and created this performance art business … called Death by Design … we created Hollywood style horror movie death scenes for people … We would set up a film set in an art gallery … and there was … a menu … like going to a spa … and you would … choose your death off of this menu … and we would create this mini movie for you … One of the things that grew out of the horror movie experiment … as you were looking for people to be in your film … was …everybody wanted to be the person that died … because that’s what people talk about … So we just built a business around that … It was basically … they chose a death … We had a variety of things you could match up … you could be eaten alive by a giant rats … or killed by a toxic waste monster … (laughter) … so … you could pick these combos … and it was just the death … We had a three hour appointment with the client … we would discuss what they wanted …  these were people with no experience acting … necessarily … Our first project was in Gallery 400 … We got this grant … they gave us money … and space to do the pilot … and then people invited us to other places to do it … What was funny … too … we found that people rarely watched their movies … what they were most interested in was the weird experience of doing it … We did it for about eight years … Tina and I took the show to different galleries … and then we started designing parties for people … We had these photo op experiences that people could participate in … and take home … death … you know … What came next? … I had never really been comfortable on stage … or on camera … but through the process of Death by Design … I was developing … a bit of a character … as I was setting up the events … people are watching you … So … I found it was easier to perform in front of people … if I had a character … that I could protect myself with … in a way … As we started to do parties … we added entertainment … so that’s how I first got introduced to the world of burlesque … and sideshow … and circus … The first time I ever saw a burlesque show … it was a Halloween show … and people were doing some gory things … I thought … “That’s interesting” … But one thing that I noticed about a lot of the performers … was … there was a concern … with … keeping their face beautiful … Although they were doing all these gory things … they were still … “Hot” … (laughter) … I just remember watching that and thinking … What could I do differently … with this … this again … is something that seems to encompass everything I love to do … And after Death by Design … I thought … What could I do individually … and then when I saw burlesque … I thought … well that’s got … costume … it’s got makeup … it can have effects elements … and it’s playing out in front of a live audience … I had also discovered the history of the Grand Quignol Theater … it was a theater tradition in Paris … but it was live gore shows … before horror movies … So … there was the challenge of doing … special effects things … in front of a live audience … how do you make these things happen … in front of an audience … where you can’t hide all the tubes … and tricks … Is … so … I just thought it was a creative challenge … so … I took all those things … into one pot … and that’s kind of how Red Rum came in … and that was about 2010 … so I’ve been doing this for about ten years … I started in bars … small independent theaters … because I knew people from Death by Design … I knew people … I was like … “Oh … I’ve got this character going” … to see if they’d give me a shot on stage … The first performance I ever did … I had the skeleton face … I came right out with the skeleton face … I thought … “If I’m really terrible … no ones going to know it’s me” … I felt it wasn’t me up there … it was another entity … So … my very first performance … I had the skeleton face … and I covered myself entirely in mud … and I was doing a fan-dance … but instead of the traditional ostrich feather fans … I thought … how could I do this differently … and I had a turkey tail feather … (laughter) … I did a traditional fan dance … but all the accessories were odd … it was an anti Valentine show … I started right out … trying to insert myself in places where I … didn’t necessarily … belong … So … I thought … maybe that’s a way to market myself … presenting the skeleton face … and the death vail … was almost … anti … what was typically presented on the burlesque stage … So I really tried to carve out a place for myself … that was unique … In the beginning … I performed … every week … now … it might be every other week … and I just go out of town more often … and because I do … all my own costuming  … there’s a lot of time in-between … with all the various creative things I do … twice a month is enough … quality versus quantity … I’ve  performed at Berlin … at the Drifter a few times … Untitled … in then past … it was never as creatively satisfying to me … I like those audiences that are looking for something a little bizarre … (laughter) … I think one of the best compliments I ever had … there was an audience member … I came out with this mask on … and I had revealed the skeleton face … and the patron stood up … made the sign of the cross … and walked out … That’s satisfying … right … but then you don’t want to feel you’re fighting this battle with the audience all the time … Performing … it’s cathartic in it’s own way … because you’re erasing so much of yourself … I think I’m almost a healthier person … because I have this entity … to exorcize my demons on … So … Red Rum has become the container for awful thoughts … or sins … or bad vibes … or whatever … There is a release that happens … just from being … something other then you … With  performances … for example … I have a performance where I’m … Charles Manson … to prepare for it … I just watched hours and hours of Charles Manson interviews … to just get into that head space a little bit … and the performance becomes … being that character … I love doing research … so part of the fun for me … is researching these characters … or these pieces of history … that are kind of … wicked … and twisted … it’s a great outlet … Social media ? … I do find it helpful … Was never much of a gallery artist per say … I like the work to be living … I can share … on social media … things like … “Here’s what I’m thinking” … or … “Here’s what’s coming up” … or you can tease information out … I love stuff that can evolve … to see your own work … in a timeline … is quite cool … and the fact that you can reach … and connect with people anywhere … makes me fell that I could live … I don’t have to live … though I love the city … I could live anywhere … and still make art … and get it out to people … and have it seen … and get just as much attention … The hardest thing about it … is keeping up with it … like … how much should you post … how much of yourself do you share … how much do you keep private … The one thing I just can’t do … is be on there all day … there’s a lot of negativity … that you can get really sucked into … I try to avoid that … that part’s hard … not being able to turn it off … But … I don’t know … I think it’s great … What’s coming up? … There’s a lot of travel … coming up … One big project that I have … right now … is … in the burlesque world … there’s this pinnacle event … The Burlesque Hall of Fame … it’s everyones burlesque … dream … to perform art the Burlesque hall of Fame … but … it’s a little pageant’y … not really for me … there’s a lot of restrictions … I’d like to find my own way to perform at the Burlesque Hall of Fame … So … what I’m doing is … I’m haunting it … like the Phantom of the Opera … (laughter) … so … my whole time there … ghosting the event … is my performance … I’m starting to branch out … into different types of performance … inserting myself in the world in different ways … not just confined to the stage all the time … So … that’s something I’m starting to move towards … a little bit more … the different lives … this character can live … beyond the stage … and the beauty of the internet is … I can share those things … those performances … This will be another level of interaction … and level of collaboration … and we’ll see where that goes …