My name is Sally Marvel … I was formerly known as Shotglass Sally … I’m a Chicago based model and sideshow burlesque performer … I’m a professional performer … it is a form of personnel fulfillment … also I’ve been performing for maybe six years and at this point I’m directing it towards a form of gains … so I’m mindful of the work that I put out … not only does it have to be personally fulfilling … it has to be profitable … So … for example … I have this wild idea … so good … I think … What if I did an act where I came out in a lobster mascot suit … and you know how you have those burlesque ladies like Dita VonTeese …who do the Martini Glass water act … What if instead of that … I had a tub filled with fake butter … and I had the lobster in the butter tub … and then I could have someone in a Paula Dean mask come out with a super soaker also filled with butter … She could be like “Butter y’all” … See … these are the things that entertain me … but I don’t think it’s profitable … as a matter of fact … I probably couldn’t fit that on most stages … So when I talk about the intersection of what is personally fulfilling … vs what I do to profit … I’m talking about the difference in self serving … vs what serves me … but also paying clients … I model largely nowadays in relation  to my performing … For example … if I need promotional material … or if I’m modeling for a brand that I think will help promote my work … If you are an entertainer or an artist watching this you should really interconnect with other creative individuals where you can cross reference each other on social media and help build up your following which I know sounds shallow … super shallow … but … the more visible you are the more opportunities  that can be readily provided to you … I do approach my modeling work as a professional … I don’t try to “Dick off” with it … (laughter) … because those pictures will live on forever … if you take a photo that you don’t personally  love … but maybe … depending on who you’re working with … the photographer does … that photo will always be out there as a reference … so never poo-poo your work even if it is not your main thing … My personal approach to modeling and performing … I want to sell a fantasy to the viewer … whether they’re looking at a flat photo … or whether they’re watching a stage performance … The focus of the fantasy that I sell is usually sensual in nature … not necessarily erotic … but I want people to be stimulated by something beautiful … whimsical … maybe it just moves them … “Oh that was so sexy” …  But this is also important … given that I do a lot of visceral side show acts that can make people very uncomfortable … For example … sword swallowing … human pin cushion … If you start putting skewers through your face … people … definitely leave the room … some of them … others will look in abject horror … some people love it … it creates a feeling … But if you’re a … “Sexy lady” … when you do this … some of the people that whom might have otherwise left if it was just grotesque … would stick a round because they are titillated … perhaps in a way that is uncomfortable or that they don’t fully understand … So in addition to sensual acts that are meant to … erotically stir people … I enjoy  performing as that can be described as sensual horror … not in the Freddy Kruger type of way … but in the way that people are encountering a situation that the wouldn’t have thought of before … and that might challenge some of the way they feel about what they’re viewing or about things they see elsewhere in life … I’m really excited to do this interview and this photo series because I’ve grown a lot over the past five … six … seven years … I moved to Chicago … I think about seven years ago … I’m not good at keeping track of time … but … I look at some of my past photos including the ones I did for the initial participatory phase of this project … and they don’t really reflect who I am as a person or an artist anymore … Though they are interesting for me to look at … nowadays … as a person … I don’t feel that I subscribed to some of the more striking alternative fashions … For example … having brightly colored hair … facial piercing … I like to adorn my body … (laughter) … in vintage inspired fashions because I feel it looks put together and the clothing type was also made to look mature … fashionable … sensible … in many ways respectful …  not in a sex shaming kind of way … but … if I walk into somewhere wearing this … (the outfit worn during the interview) … or wearing a pinup girl’s style dress … I’m more likely to be taken seriously then if I walk in with shredded fishnet under shorts and a metal tee … As an artist … my style has also progressed along these lines … rather then having a lot of striking alt-girl looks … you’ll have more stylized … like latex model looks … or burlesque looks … it’s not that they’re not interesting or unique in their own way … but they’re not quite as wild and all over the map … it’s a more cultivated appearance … I get all kinds of reactions to my work … and in part this is because I perform for all kinds of people and all kinds of people will see my modeling work online or hanging in a gallery … I’ve been talking about being really sexy … but I can dress it up and do family friendly events … I was doing a glass walking act that made a small child scream cry the other day … and the adults thought it was funny … but that poor child … that’s going to live with him for awhile … Some people … they feel that it’s really magical …I’ve had audience members … adult audience members tell me “Oh that’s so magical” … This has happened multiple times … and I’m really happy that I can do that for them … Sometimes you’ll run into a dude who thinks that the show is the girlfriend shop … “Oh hey … she put on this whole show for me” … I’m glad they’re titillated … but it’s not that kind of show … You know … you run the gamut … Some people I mentioned earlier … they’re watching an act … and its too much for them … and they’ll leave … You encounter a whole range of emotions … I would say on the whole people enjoy what I do and are drawn to it if they’re the kind of people who’d purvey this type of work in the first place … Even some people who wouldn’t … they’re very shocked … pleasantly shocked and surprised by what they see … “Oh wow … I didn’t know burlesque could look like this” … or … “I’ve never seen anything like that before … Wow” … And I really like bringing that to peoples lives … Performing and modeling allow me to live free and without regrets … that is the baseline … Every day I wake up and more or less do what I want … Or if it’s something I don’t necessarily want to do … maybe it’s an email I don’t want to respond to … It’s more or less getting me in position to accomplish my goals … I think we have one life … and it’s our choice to do what we want … and so many people are constrained by expectations… either familial … societal … what their friends … peers …whatever … are going to say … but after five or seven years of doing that … I’ve either shed the people who have tried to keep me down … or I have changed their opinion … For example … When I started performing and modeling … my mom wasn’t about it … and now it’s something that she accepts that I do … and she is actually very excited sometimes … “Oh you’re going to be performing in Milwaukee … Oh I wish I … I wasn’t watching the kids … I’d love to go see that” … So in this way I’ve been able to turn things that might be fantasy for some … into a constant reality for me … and I couldn’t really ask for more except to be on this path … In the past so many years … I’ve changed in many ways … some of them I’ve touched on … Some obvious ways apart for my appearance are … I’ve increased my skillset … I don’t believe I was sword swallowing when I first started this project and the skills I have have allowed me to travel and experience different environments and different performers and really shape my view of the kind of art I like and how I want to live my life and what I want to accomplish as a performer … so it’s not just a change in aesthetics it’s a change in the state of mind and goals … For example when I performed and modeled in my earlier days I was just really interested in whatever weird strange things came to my mind … But as I mentioned earlier … I tend to keep other people who are purveying the art in mind now … It’s not that I neuter what I do for them … It’s that I ask myself … If I’m already doing something really strange or something that would be considered outlandish to most of main stream society … If they don’t understand what they’re looking at … how well executed is it … In this way … I’ve been more conscious … not only of the choices I make in regards to progressing myself as an individual and my career as an artist … but also in how I cultivate the media  that I produced and how I portray it to the people … When I first started modeling … I really wanted to do all kind of projects … swimwear modeling on the beach … runway modeling … Weird photo manipulation art modeling … Implied nude modeling … You name the type of modeling … I wanted to dabble in it and I think now I have narrowed down not only what specifically interests me but what I’m good at and what’s also going to help me reach whatever goal I’m trying to do … for example … I had someone contact me about web play modeling … which I’ve done before … and it’s a very interesting process … it creates interesting vintage photos whereas in the past I would have said … “Yes I will gladly do this” … now I think in relation to my modeling … “Alright … if I set aside a day to get myself done … to go to the shoot … to do the shoot … what images will actually result from this and how am I going to use them … So … I’m much more discerning about the work I do and the shoots I do and who I work with … It’s not that an Image has no value if it can’t be used for profit or for personal enrichment … It’s just that we have limited time and so if you really want to excel at the things that are of value to you … then you can’t chase everything that presents itself … as I mentioned you have to be discerning … So … we’ve seen a massive growth in pretty radical social justice movements … It kind of reminds me of some of the things that we saw in the 60’s … Not that I was alive then … but I read textbooks … Anyhow … It’s led to a lot of really positive things such as the MeToo movement which has allowed woman to open up … and people as a society to be aware of the horrible things people face … Same with Black Lives Matter … It’s really … there’s a lot of dialog that’s making the world a better … more awoken place … However there’s also a lot of hyper-sensitivity … and as we tumble through this awakening period … It’s kind of a hot mess …  (laughter) … and I think even a lot of people who are active in social justice movements would have to agree on various points … We’re rapidly changing how we approach people … how we approach art … and there’s not a solid consensus on how to do it … or what is right or wrong … and it’s wild … In relationship to my art a lot of this has caused me to turn … “Into myself” … when I create … when I reflect on some of the work I created in the past … I think that some of it could be thought of as being appropriating … It doesn’t matter if it touched mildly on some distant ancestry of mine or a culture that I admire … If I’m moved by it … and if I meant more by it … it doesn’t matter because that’s not how it may be perceived by people of those cultures … and I think looking back I probably wouldn’t have executed certain looks … It just wasn’t a dialog five … seven years ago … not like it is today … So… back to the point I was making … now when I create art … I really look … into myself … what is it … that I like … that really inspires me from things that I encounter in my culture … in my society … I really admire vintage Hollywood glamour … a lot of French and Spanish romance culture … inspired imagery … no ones going to be mad if you look like … (laughter) … a starlet from the golden age era … and I certainly enjoy that particular look… but if you start trying to experiment with other peoples identities … the way it’s received is going to be mixed across the board … and … you know … demographics … any demographic you can pin point … with Women … Black people … Latinos … it’s not like the “Borg”… they’re not all assimilated to the same Idea … So one person will tell you it’s ok … because it might be ok with them because they know you … and then another person is going to see that and think …“That’s terrible … why did you do this?” … So in my attempt to reach people with my art … I try to be genuine and true to who I am as a person rather then exploring my interests in other peoples identities with my art … So given that what I do involves provocative female sensuality … sexuality … which is something that in our culture is very divisive … you might assume that I have encountered people who were not as supportive of my work or felt that it was … “Serving the male gaze” … or diminishing of my strength as an independent woman … But I think most woman I encounter feel empowered … most people in general who talk to me about my work enjoy it … I think I touched on this in a previous question but it often times does things that people weren’t expecting … In part … I think because I share my personal freedom with them unabashedly but also because I’m doing things that can seem super human to them at times … like swallowing a sword … sometimes they don’t even stop to think that I had my boobs out with tassels on … (laughter) … They’re like … “I can’t believe you swallowed that sword”… I could have been wearing anything … It’s like they … It’s just over their head … I have caught wind that some people were not as approving … Usually … if someone’s booking me for a gig they’ll let me know in advance … “Oh… this is a family friendly event”… Ok … cool … so I’ll put more cloths on … because I understand  in our culture that probably means you shouldn’t have your butt cheeks out … right … (laughter) … that helps me avoid a lot of potential drama … But in general … because I try to keep my work appropriate to the environment in the ways that I can … For example with my wardrobe or with making my act understandable to the purveyor … I don’t tend to encounter as many issues … I also mentioned that my mother early on was not approving of my work … but I think when people can see something that is powerful to them or that seems … maybe extra ordinary in some way … that they can put some of their personal differences aside and approach it from a different prospective … It was wild … when I first started performing … Sugar Skull was everywhere … multiple shows … multiple performers … in Sugar Skull face and most of these people are white … no one said anything about it no one thought about it … it wasn’t a dialog … it was just something … it was just a look … I don’t think anyone thought about it too deeply either … oh … cool … colors … skull face … let’s do it … Nowadays in burlesque groups I’ll see screens shots of some random makeup artist who’s just showing how she created a look … demonstrating her skills … People will be like … “She’s racist trash” … and that’s their prerogative to feel that way … but I one hundred percent know that these people have friends and cohorts in the performance community who were also on that Sugar Skull train like five years ago … and no one’s really answering for that … I don’t that … answering for something that happened faultlessly five years ago … is a thing that needs to happen … It’s just … wow … it’s just such an extreme jump to contemplate … I haven’t put too much thought into it as how to address it but that’s also part of my earlier commentary on how social justice leads to some very messy waters to navigate for people because you can get different answers from people who are part of those cultures … or … how to approach those situations isn’t even widely agreed upon by people who are more involved with social justice activities … Just as a memory of how it was even five years ago versus now … it was so different … I don’t think I explained it … I just mentioned it as if the audience understands it already … Sugar Skull is … “Day of the Dead” … It’s colorful skull face paint … Dia de los Muertos being a religious holiday that honors the deceased relatives … and that’s why people find it so offensive because it’s appropriating something that has it’s basis in an important religious activity … Like I said … It’s so weird … five years ago no-one talks about it or said anything about it … it was very common to see five … six years later … you do that … you’re getting blasted as being racist trash … I have no commentary on whether it’s right or wrong … obviously if you’re Latino or Hispanic and that’s part of your culture and you see that … your feelings on that are totally valid … and however you want to approach it to you … It’s just that we’re making these huge jumps in ways where there’s not necessarily clear paths on how to navigate … or even clear agreement across different spectrums of communities … Social media for the modern artist is so important … you want to maintain your web presence you want to be accessible you want to have you’re web presence’s whether it’s Facebook … Facebook fan page … Instagram … whatever is easy to navigate so people don’t ask … “Is this person still doing their thing? … Where are they from? … How can I contact them?” … Those kind of things … However … social media and the importance of various platforms changes … just look at Myspace and Friendster … They’re just gone … I mean you can still access Myspace but no one uses it … Facebook … I’ve noticed that people over a period of time have become increasingly disgruntled with it … and… I’ve noticed even more so this year a lot of people decided that … just writing that they’ve fazed out a lot more … and they’re a lot happier without it … that they don’t find it as valid because of how the feeds are structured or that they enjoy other social media outlets better … And I think that’s really pivotal … Tying it back into what I do as an artist … I still contact a lot of people through Facebook … but Instagram is actually becoming a lot more important … Facebook makes you accessible to people you’re already connected to or referrals … If they don’t get filtered into one of your spam inboxes … (laughter) … Instagram you can reach people across the world … Through Instagram I’ve had offers through Circe LaSoire Dubai … I got on a road trip with Hell’s a’Poppin circus side show traveling across the U.S … I’ve performed for so many different people … modeled for so many different people made so many different artist connections that I don’t think would be possible through Facebook … I’ve gotten random corporate gigs through Instagram … where someone found my stuff … Again … I don’t think that would be possible through Facebook … and this isn’t unique to me … I’ve heard this from a lot of other artists … So in regards to social media … While Facebook is still valid I think Instagram is the wave of the future … Twitter I never quite figured out … but a gentleman I knew in porn … (laughter) … told me that it’s actually super great for adult industry people because they don’t censor as much stuff … but also there’s more networking on there so if you’re on the adult end of the artist spectrum Twitter is something to look into as well …